Page 1 of 11 1 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 105

Thread: Wire Working/Tucking/Sleeving/Labeling Discussion

  1. #1
    Moderator ryaano18's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    781
    Feedback Score
    0

    Introduction to Motorsport Wiring

    Hey guys,

    Since wire tucking is pretty much the new essential of many Honda builds I wanted to open a discussion about it. I know this is the DIY Section but there is no other electrical section on the forum.

    I see guys spending thousands of dollars on high end harness such as Ry-Wire, Wire-Worx and Chasebays, just to name a few, but the main reason they are doing it is because they want to clean, simplicity of the wiring and not the benefits it actually gives to have mil-spec wiring.

    Mil-spec wiring is pretty much what the name implies, its used on military equipment due to it's high heat and high current application. The wire they use is called Tefzel Wiring or when you order it m22759/32 or /16. The /32 is more expensive but a 22awg /32 is the same size as a 24 awg /16. A full order number would be m22759/32-22-0, the 22 is the awg and the 0 is the color (in the instance 0 is black)

    The hardest part about building a complete harness from scratch, in my opinion, is getting the pin terminals since they vary in size and who actually sells it in low volume. As someone who loves tracking down hard to find terminals, you will eventually go through many suppliers until you find the perfect one (its a love story actually) that can get you the right pins. However, you will have to sit through catalogs through the different factories and match up part numbers which can take a while.

    But if the actual wiring isn't your concern and it's the aesthetics is what you are looking for then you just need to worry about sleeving.




    There are 3 sleeve type that i have personally used
    (in the order of the picture)
    Techflex - PET
    Raychem DR-25
    Techflex - Insulutherm

    The Pros and Cons between these (common) sleeves are as follows by my PERSONAL OPINION:

    PET-
    Pros:
    Easy to slide over wires as it expands tremendously
    Easy to bend
    Glossy finish
    Covers wires about 70% (see through the of the sleeve)
    Variety of colors
    Tons of sizes starting at 1/8inch
    Cons:
    Frays extremely easily
    Lowest heat rating, about the range of standard loom
    Can pop out of joints easier since it is so flexible

    Insulutherm-
    Pros:
    Extremely High Heat sleeve
    Can withstand around 1200 Degrees! yes, over 1000!
    100% Wire covering (no see through)
    Can expand to twice its size
    Flexible even when expanded
    Cons:
    Thicker material so can add bulk to a wire abundant harness
    Tough to slide over a long section of wires
    More expensive than regular PET

    Raychem DR-25
    Pros:
    Chemical resistant (have not put to the test)
    Scratch resistant
    Abrasion resistant
    Looks great with the yellow lettering!
    450~ degree rating (i think it's higher but thats the spec)
    Cons:
    Toughest to work with, no expansion
    Very time consuming to heat shrink big harnesses
    Looks crappy when not heat shrunk properly (i.e. Bubbly)
    Most expensive of the 3 (very expensive, like holy crap expensive)

    Raychem Dr-25 is the preferred method to go since that it what most, if not all race teams use for their harnesses.

    You can purchase Techflex at:

    Wire-care.com

    (my personal favorite website)

    Raychem and Tefzel Wire can be purchased at

    Prowireusa.com



    Heat Shrink is also something i wanted to cover.

    Heat shrink come in two main categories, regular wall and adhesive wall. Yes, there are other types of heat shrink but for harness building these are the two main ones used.

    Regular wall heat shrink is commonly used on solder joints. It's main purpose is to prevent the exposed wiring/solder from coming into contact with ground or other wires.

    Adhesive walled heat shrink can also be used for solder joints but it is pointless to do so since regular heat shrink is 1/4 the price of regular heat shrink. I personally use Adhesive Shrink to cover joined sections in sleeves such as a 1->3 section. If you look at my harness below you can see what i mean. It can also cover splices of wires which are very common in harnesses i.e. sensor ground, sensor 5v etc.

    Adhesive comes at a price, its a sturdy material and the adhesive keeps the joints from slipping out. But if you need to remove it, it has ZERO residue left over. These come in long tubes when ordered so dont be surprised to see a 4inch X 6ft box at your house when you order it.

    These can be ordered at Wire-care.com as well
    or you can get Raychem SCL which is a 2:1 from
    Prowireusa.com

    Concentric Twisting


    (photo of a harness built by RaceSpec)
    This is an advanced form of wiring technique. Do not let it fool you, it looks simple but there is a certain procedure and steps that need to be taken while doing this.

    What this does is strengthen the wires as a bundle. Also tremendously improves its flexibility and helps keep strain even (i.e. no one wire has more tension on it than another). It's not as simple as just putting the wires in a drill and pressing the trigger. The pro's like to call it Hand Laying or contrawinding. Its all the same thing.

    When you're twisting 2 wires or even 4 wires, it's not a big issue on technique. But when doing a full engine harness or chassis harness then this is where experience dominates. But this technique is what is used for Formula 1 cars (though they use 30awg wire) and full out drag teams.

    The process is referred to the Rule of 6

    Say you have 7 wires, you will use 1 as the core, and take the other 6 wires to wrap around it keeping all wires flat for a perfect lay. This is assuming all wires are the same length and same gauge. If you do it right, the 6 wires wrapped around the first should end at the same location.

    Now if you are doing say a full harness, with roughly 50 or so wires, you still start with a core wire, then do the 6 wrapped around as the first layer. The second layer should contain 12 wires wrapping in the opposite direction, 3rd layer with 18 again in the opposite and so on, if you dont have enough wires, then ballast (filler) wire should be added to maintain the perfect lay. It gets tricky when you have different gauges of wire or shielded wire which is where filler wire would be most commonly thrown in.

    You maybe wondering what the string and amber tape is for also...

    The string is Kevlar lacing string that can be purchased online at multiple sites, its keeps the bundle tight and firm. It is also referred to as binder.

    The tape is called Kapton tape. Its use is for raychem adhesive boots. When the super strong adhesive is applied to the boots it grabs everything, the tape prevents it from grabbing on the wires and reduces risks of having to cut the wire during a harness service. It also shields the wires from the heat applied when shrinking down a transition boot because they take a while to heat up


    Costs

    Some people might think that if they build their own harness that they will be saving a lot of money then purchasing say a Ry-wire harness. The short answer is only in one scenario will you actually save some coin. For most people, it is better to go with Ry-wire or Wire-Worx as technically, they are priced very fairly.

    Wiring materials are extremely expensive. Let me say that again.. EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE! especially if you build one from scratch. If you are just doing a cleanup job, techflex on your stock harness, maybe $80 at most to make it look nicer. Now if you're doing a milspec conversion....

    Tefzel - .18 - .50 cents per foot, roughly 300ft of wire in an engine harness for sizes of 20, 22
    Raychem loom - between $1.50 - 2.50 per foot, roughly 20ft total but you always have to order a little extra
    Breakout Boots - between $18-30 per boot, roughly 6 boots (not necessary but more clean and organized)
    Kapton Tape - $30 for 36 yards
    Milspec Plug - depending on which you go with, cheapest is $40-60 per side but the good stuff is $100 per side and you need 2 sides
    adhesive shrink - $10 per size of 4ft shrink, 3 sizes needed typically
    Tools - milspec crimpers $300, turret $100 or positioners $50 each and you need about 4 different positioners
    Factory pins - not including time to find these bastards but about .20 a pin and roughly 100 each of many sizes
    Factory connectors - if yours are damaged, around $5-10 per connector
    Labeler - $100 for a basic one
    Labels - $30 per cartridge
    then another 30 hours of planning, pinning, de-pinning, drawing schematics, measurements, pin-to-pin testing for a standard engine harness
    This is not including optional stuff like; deustch connectors, proper splice materials, multiple cannon plugs, shielded wire etc. As with anything car related, initial costs are high and scare a lot of people away but if you truly enjoy it then it it worth the investment. Think about it, tig welders drop $2,000 - $6,000 for a welder alone so it's not all that bad

    What Wire Size Should I use?

    Now, a lot of people (myself included) go off the notion that the bigger wire the better. Technically speaking, yes. However, when there is no need for it, then you're just adding unneccessary bulk, weight, and cost if you use say 16 awg wire for everything. Typically, there is never more than 5amps drawn from any motor sensor. Most mil spec wiring is going to be 22awg for practically all motors and cars. Ignition would be 20awg for factory smart coils, and 18 gauge (shielded) for CDI ignition (motec, aem, haltech). But everything else does not draw very much current and some guys use 24awg. I use a 20% margin so i use 22awg for any sensor.

    Fun Fact: F1 Cars use 30awg wire. They outsource special F1 wiring companies to design and build them, and since weight is a huge factor for F1 cars, the teams demand the actual harness weight measurement by the gram. Not only do the harnesses have to be feather light, it needs to withstand the transmission housing which is one of the most harshest enviroments on earth. Yea... I don't know how they do it

    Here's a chart to show the wire awg to current draw. You can find current ratings on whatever you want to wire from manufactures specifications. or if you know the watts you can use the formula

    Currents (amps) = Watts / 14.4Volts



    Please add to this thread your questions about wiring, or if you have tips then please share because im always willing to learn how to build a better harness. Share some pics as will I
    Last edited by ryaano18; 09-11-2014 at 04:27 PM.

  2.    Sponsored Links





  3. Become a Free Registered Member and Remove This Ad!


  4. #2
    Moderator ryaano18's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    781
    Feedback Score
    0
    Here is the most recent harness i finished which is the floor harness. Stripped to bare essentials (no srs, or abs etc)

    BEFORE


    AFTER






  5. #3
    Boostaholic
    monjarassi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Houston TX
    Posts
    2,665
    Feedback Score
    2 (100%)
    Great post homie ill have some pix up shortly of the work you have done for me
    Using promo code "SPOOLBUS" @ checkout when shopping in the eshop will save you money!!

  6. #4
    Premium Member boosted_teg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    nb, canada
    Posts
    729
    Feedback Score
    0
    where can you buy tefzel wire? I did my own two piece harness using a newer style accord quick disconnects. The only thing that drives me nuts is solder joints. I want to build one with zero joints in it, using tefzel wire.
    2001 Boosted Built k20a2 Billet BB 6766BB

    2013=579whp 406trq @ 24 psi c16
    10.87@137mph

    2014= 510whp 370trq @ 18psi pump gas


    2015= 7xx @ 30psi??

  7. #5
    Moderator ryaano18's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    781
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by boosted_teg View Post
    where can you buy tefzel wire? I did my own two piece harness using a newer style accord quick disconnects. The only thing that drives me nuts is solder joints. I want to build one with zero joints in it, using tefzel wire.
    you can buy tefzel from p-r-s.com or i think motorsportwiringsupply.com carries it as well. If you dont want any solder joints look into deutsch connectors from wire-care.com I will be making a multi-section engine harness as well and will be using those connectors for easy access and it will be easier to trace down problems in the harness

  8. #6
    Super Moderator
    Spaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,687
    Feedback Score
    0
    No matter how much I tuck my car and redo harnesses I will always hate electrical lol
    Available now are SPAZ APPROVED decals!!! Available in multiple colors!


    Need parts?! Check out our eShop and let me know! We can help you out!
    http://boostedk20.com/eshop/

  9. #7
    Moderator ryaano18's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    781
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Spaz View Post
    No matter how much I tuck my car and redo harnesses I will always hate electrical lol
    Lol its actually my favorite part. Once you pull out a section of wire you can sit down, get comfortable and go to work

  10. #8
    Formerly "Adm_rsx"


    PetefromtheStreets's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    4,590
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    I'd love to be able to make my own engine harness. I just really don't have all the know how to do it.
    Tire slayer
    Breaking everything since 2011

  11. #9
    Senior Member Spoolin_VTEC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    US
    Posts
    477
    Feedback Score
    0
    I can't believe I missed this thread! Great info, repped! There is an electrical section on here, it's called WEST: Wiring, Electrical, & Security Talk http://www.boostedk20.com/forums/for...-Security-Talk

    PM a mod to move this if you'd like. The section is weak, so it can definitely use more topics! Thanks again Ryan. Looking forward to more of your posts
    Last edited by Spoolin_VTEC; 12-29-2013 at 05:08 PM.

  12. #10
    Moderator ryaano18's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    781
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Spoolin_VTEC View Post
    I can't believe I missed this thread! Great info, repped! There is an electrical section on here, it's called WEST: Wiring, Electrical, & Security Talk http://www.boostedk20.com/forums/for...-Security-Talk

    PM a mod to move this if you'd like. The section is weak, so it can definitely use more topics! Thanks again Ryan. Looking forward to more of your posts
    Thanks for the heads up, I couldn't find other section anything at first. I'll have one of them move it and post some more pics soon, just waiting on another harness to come my way

Page 1 of 11 1 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •