Page 1 of 3 1 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 25

Thread: Lets talk Gears ..Options ? Differences ? Ratios ?

  1. #1
    Senior Member vdubkilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    914
    Feedback Score
    0

    Lets talk Gears ..Options ? Differences ? Ratios ?

    As we all know the stock K series transmission is the weak link in any boosted K series car .I have always wanted to build a transmission for my boosted K as the stock trans has limited me on the size of the turbo I can/will run and kept me from competing at the drag strip for fear or breaking the transmission all the time .I must admit I know very little when it comes to this topic of built transmissions .I have installed a quaife in two transmissions now so I am somewhat familiar with the inside of the K Transmission but am looking for my best options for a street car that will also see the drag strip on occasion .What are the choices ? ppg ? mfactory ? I know their are helical and straight cut gears and helical are best for a street driven car as the straight cut gears are noisy .I want some advice from people who have actual first hand experience and knowledge on the topic .Please help me / us out. What will work best ? What are the different gears rated at hp wise ? Is a different/heavy duty final drive also necessary ? I am full of questions and looking for answers so please chime in lets hear it form those who know and can help !
    Last edited by vdubkilla; 11-15-2013 at 11:28 PM.
    You and that bubble ain't nothin but trouble

  2.    Sponsored Links





  3. Become a Free Registered Member and Remove This Ad!


  4. #2
    Boostaholic
    monjarassi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Houston TX
    Posts
    2,665
    Feedback Score
    2 (100%)
    Such a great topic can't wait to see the answers gurus will have.

    When it comes to tranny talk, im a dud.
    Using promo code "SPOOLBUS" @ checkout when shopping in the eshop will save you money!!

  5. #3
    Senior Member vdubkilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    914
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by monjarassi View Post
    Such a great topic can't wait to see the answers gurus will have.

    When it comes to tranny talk, im a dud.
    Absolutely me too ! I have gotten to know the K engine pretty well now it's time to focus on the weak link the Transmission
    You and that bubble ain't nothin but trouble

  6. #4
    Senior Member vdubkilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    914
    Feedback Score
    0
    Bump !
    You and that bubble ain't nothin but trouble

  7. #5
    Formerly "Adm_rsx"


    PetefromtheStreets's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    4,590
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    Was going to respond to this earlier but needed to gather some info to do so.

    With that said...



    I don't have much personal experience with built transmissions BUT I do know a friend of mine had a PPG final drive and stripped it clean and he made 900+whp spinning the tires on the dyno. Not sure how only God knows.

    I personally will be getting a base model 5 speed trans and will be getting a 1/2 dog set. I would just throw the 1/2 from PPG in my 6 speed but the ratios are my in its favor... These settings below are based off of my setup and my setup alone. The rev limit is set where it is due to restrictions of the blower rpm.
    You can easily go to MFactory gear calculator and try your revs out.


    What we've got here is your standard 05-06 rsx-s transmission ratios on a 24.5'' slick.



    Now here we have the same trans with the PPG 1/2 dog set in. (2.83/1.93)

    You can see the gears are longer and therefore give more mph for the same rev limit.

    From:
    1st gear - 38mph
    2nd gear - 59mph

    To:
    1st gear - 44mph
    2nd gear - 65mph

    Which will help with your 60 ft time being your most likely just part it when you click 2nd.

    And you see 3rd gear is only going to 83mph. And that is just a useless gear change for 1/4 mile.


    Now since I have a 4.389FD it's basically a 02-04 rsx-s trans minus the speed gear on the diff.

    This allows for ratios like :


    3rd would only get you to 90mph and 4th only to 119 which requires me to click into 5th gear and in drag racing more shifts =more ET. and ain't nobody got time for that!

    So this is why I want a 5 speed trans to start with.

    It will allow:
    3rd gear - 112mph
    4th grade - 148mph

    Those ratios are more set for staff racing and ehh better gas mileage

    Now PPG also has a (2.615/1.611) 1/2 dog set and that will further more mph at the same given rpm.

    It's ratios are meant for I'd guestimate 750+whp applications.

    Or for those that stay in 1st and 2nd gears mostly in circuit tracks.


    A whopping 55mph in 1st and 89mph in 2nd gear. That's just not enough acceleration rate for my power level. Anyways how this helps some decide on which ratios to go for.
    [MENTION=83]vdubkilla[/MENTION] I'd never get a PPG helical cut set simply because pfitzner himself shows a Video on how to drive a dog box daily. He says unlike a synchro at you can't tags time pulling the shifter into the next gear. It has to be quick and meaningful. Which with how we drive or cars and like it will be no big deal.

    Straight cut synchro set I'd say is more so a weekend warriors choice. Something that rarely sees a track. So in my case that's a no go being as I bring my beast to the track already half broke and try to go for personal bests. Lol
    Last edited by PetefromtheStreets; 11-19-2013 at 01:29 AM.
    Tire slayer
    Breaking everything since 2011

  8. #6
    I <3 Purpul Shocker
    Si Speed 317's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    3,001
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    Great thread. I've learned this information with the assistance of my dear friend [MENTION=56]Adm_rsx[/MENTION] over time. Here I go:

    Many companies (Frana, etc) actually weld gears together to make them stronger, which is great over OEM but crap if you want to change your gears once and forget about it. PPG Gears are made from solid blocks of high-grade billet aluminum, so you're getting phenomenal quality with them over everyone else. Added to this, is their lifetime warranty. Now, there are 2 gear types:

    Helical Cut


    And Straight Cut


    You see the difference?
    Helical: ///////////
    Straight: ||||||||||

    Helical gears are what nearly ALL transmissions come with from the factory. Now, straight cut gears are far stronger than helical no matter how you put it. They allow full-face contact as they interlock.

    The biggest weak point, aside from the gears themselves, are the synchros. They're used to make the gear 'catch up' to the engine speed, and allow for smoother shifting for daily driving. Have you ever felt grinding as you're shifting or have a gear pop out? That's your synchro's reminding you how much they hate you. The real issue is that we all technically need to wait a split second between shifting gears in a synchro-based transmission. Why? Because the synchros are making the gear speed 'catch up' to the engine speed (rpm). That takes a second. Also, having synchros means less room for gears, so they have to be thinner (narrower) and thus, weaker. Starting to see why we're having the problems we all end up having?

    Here's what we all want: Dog Gears (dog box). These allow for solid full-throttle shifts regardless of engine or transmission speeds (whereas a synchro setup is trying to match the two speeds, thus the tons of synchro problems). Dog gears are all straight cut. You pick a gear, you go in. That's it. The difference is you have to pick a gear and go for it. No hesitation allowed. PPG has their own special 'dog engagement interlocking system' that allows for much better gear engagement and are much stronger. And with no synchros, the gears can be larger (wider) and much, much stronger! And the best part is that PPG dog box gears CAN be daily driven and taken on long distances! Some companies don't have any oil passages, which mean no heat dissipation and no long drives. But PPG has our backs, and makes amazing products. From gears to final drives to synchros and everything in-between.

    I hope all this makes sense. If not, ask!

    "As I lay rubber down to street, I pray for traction I can keep. But if I spin and begin to slide, please oh please protect my ride."

    One-off SRT Top Mount Manifold - GT3076R
    My Ruckus Build

  9. #7
    Master Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    1,889
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    I'm sure most of you have seen this, but bringing it over here as it is a good reference for this type of discussion:

    Here is a video that shows how loud the straight cut gears can be for normal driving:


    Also I have a base rsx 5 speed for sale right now, it's already taken apart, meaning the gears are pressed off the shafts, so I could easily sell you 3th and 4th gear if you're interested @<u><a href="http://www.boostedk20.com/forums/member.php?u=56" target="_blank">Adm_rsx</a></u>
    Last edited by aLmk; 11-19-2013 at 11:12 AM.

  10. #8
    Master Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    1,889
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Si Speed 317 View Post
    Great thread. I've learned this information with the assistance of my dear friend [MENTION=56]Adm_rsx[/MENTION] over time. Here I go:

    Many companies (Frana, etc) actually weld gears together to make them stronger, which is great over OEM but crap if you want to change your gears once and forget about it. PPG Gears are made from solid blocks of high-grade billet aluminum, so you're getting phenomenal quality with them over everyone else. Added to this, is their lifetime warranty. Now, there are 2 gear types:

    Helical Cut


    And Straight Cut


    You see the difference?
    Helical: ///////////
    Straight: ||||||||||

    Helical gears are what nearly ALL transmissions come with from the factory. Now, straight cut gears are far stronger than helical no matter how you put it. They allow full-face contact as they interlock.

    The biggest weak point, aside from the gears themselves, are the synchros. They're used to make the gear 'catch up' to the engine speed, and allow for smoother shifting for daily driving. Have you ever felt grinding as you're shifting or have a gear pop out? That's your synchro's reminding you how much they hate you. The real issue is that we all technically need to wait a split second between shifting gears in a synchro-based transmission. Why? Because the synchros are making the gear speed 'catch up' to the engine speed (rpm). That takes a second. Also, having synchros means less room for gears, so they have to be thinner (narrower) and thus, weaker. Starting to see why we're having the problems we all end up having?

    Here's what we all want: Dog Gears (dog box). These allow for solid full-throttle shifts regardless of engine or transmission speeds (whereas a synchro setup is trying to match the two speeds, thus the tons of synchro problems). Dog gears are all straight cut. You pick a gear, you go in. That's it. The difference is you have to pick a gear and go for it. No hesitation allowed. PPG has their own special 'dog engagement interlocking system' that allows for much better gear engagement and are much stronger. And with no synchros, the gears can be larger (wider) and much, much stronger! And the best part is that PPG dog box gears CAN be daily driven and taken on long distances! Some companies don't have any oil passages, which mean no heat dissipation and no long drives. But PPG has our backs, and makes amazing products. From gears to final drives to synchros and everything in-between.

    I hope all this makes sense. If not, ask!
    That's a bold claim, I certainly do not want straight cut gears for my DD. If my civic turns into a weekend/track car only then yea I would consider it, but no way could I deal with that noise all the time.

  11. #9
    Formerly "Adm_rsx"


    PetefromtheStreets's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    4,590
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    what would you be charging for the gears I'm interested in 3rd 4th and 5th

    s4 IG-petefromthestreets
    Cage plus radio member #1
    Tire slayer
    Breaking everything since 2011

  12. #10
    Senior Member Frostydc5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    NOVA
    Posts
    1,008
    Feedback Score
    0
    I have always been told straight cut gears aren't something you want to daily. No because of the noise but because of the heat, yes they have oil passages, but from what i've been told if your stuck in traffic or something like that its not something you want to daily. Again thats just the information I have always been given from people who have been in this for much longer than most of us, i know everyone has their opinions just thought I would throw a little of what I have in here
    Great info thus far!

Page 1 of 3 1 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •