Real St Performance's False Claim of Being the World's Fastest Exposed

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Originally Posted by aLmk

That is awesome stuff! What is the point of using two rotrex charges? Does that improve response more?

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Rotrex are driven from the crank and are centrifugal compressor's so boost climbs fairly linearly with the rpm.

Boost = torque and acceleration. So I developed the twin Rotrex in series concept. With my twin SC I run 22psi up top, a little more boost than a C38-91 can produce, however I have 20psi at 6000rpm. My car accelerated 30% faster than when I had a single C38-91 Rotrex making 594WHP. 60-100kph went from 1.37Sec down to 1.04Sec.
http://www.jaydeequantum.com.au/imag...0pressures.jpg
This is data from my twin Rotrex running 650WHP at 20psi.

I added the second cursor to highlight the low rpm boost of the twins so you can compare this to your setup. At 4000rpm my twins produce 9psi which is 8psi at the inlet manifold, and by 6000rpm it's 20psi+ holding thru to 8500rpm. The K24 and the series twins is a really good combination.

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Originally Posted by Si Speed 317

Absolutely. Also makes more power. Similar concept to twin turbos AFAIK, but much more instantaneous power. I believe he has a Motec traction control system, which is nuts and catches traction! [MENTION=228]Jaydee[/MENTION] we need some videos and Quantum introduction!!

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We use an Autronic SM4 ECU which has closed loop traction control standard, including boost by gear, which by the way works very well in normal installations. However our system has evolved over 4 years where we have integrated the Motec ADL2 data so our traction control has wheel slip, vertical G, Lateral G, road speed, gear, steering angle and a driver ability knob(:) all 3D mapped.)

So as you can see from these 2 posts our Jaydee Atom is not just a 650WHP Atom.

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Originally Posted by Adm_rsx

I will forever love jaydees atom.

s4 IG-petefromthestreets
Cage plus radio member #1

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Thanks. I just love it a well. If your ever in Australia I will take you for a cruise.

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Originally Posted by Jaydee

Rotrex are driven from the crank and are centrifugal compressor's so boost climbs fairly linearly with the rpm.

Boost = torque and acceleration. So I developed the twin Rotrex in series concept. With my twin SC I run 22psi up top, a little more boost than a C38-91 can produce, however I have 20psi at 6000rpm. My car accelerated 30% faster than when I had a single C38-91 Rotrex making 594WHP. 60-100kph went from 1.37Sec down to 1.04Sec.
http://www.jaydeequantum.com.au/imag...0pressures.jpg
This is data from my twin Rotrex running 650WHP at 20psi.

I added the second cursor to highlight the low rpm boost of the twins so you can compare this to your setup. At 4000rpm my twins produce 9psi which is 8psi at the inlet manifold, and by 6000rpm it's 20psi+ holding thru to 8500rpm. The K24 and the series twins is a really good combination.



We use an Autronic SM4 ECU which has closed loop traction control standard, including boost by gear, which by the way works very well in normal installations. However our system has evolved over 4 years where we have integrated the Motec ADL2 data so our traction control has wheel slip, vertical G, Lateral G, road speed, gear, steering angle and a driver ability knob(:) all 3D mapped.)

So as you can see from these 2 posts our Jaydee Atom is not just a 650WHP Atom.




Thanks. I just love it a well. If your ever in Australia I will take you for a cruise.

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So basically with the twin chargers you can get to higher boost levels earlier in the rpm band? Is that what I'm gathering? Rather than a typical super charger that builds boost absolutely linearly through the rpm band? If so, that's really neat and a great use, that to me was always the downfall of the superchargers is that you have to wait till rev limit to get to full boost.

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Originally Posted by Spoolin_VTEC

Browsing this morning, I came across this picture with the caption saying they have the world's fastest Atom:
http://i43.tinypic.com/2v9w176.png

As far as I can tell, they made ~650whp turbocharged, which is nothing compared to Jaydee's Atom. It makes 650whp with the world's first noted twin-rotrex setup. Instant power, full traction, crazy power, very lightweight (~1,365 lbs as noted in their ROTM article found here: April ROTM Winner: Jaydee), extended wheel base, deeply extensive research and development - the works. It's not just about power, or power-to-weight ratios. It's about traction, handling, and everything that makes the Ariel Atom what it is. Saying they're the fastest in the world when the only Atom in Australia humbly annihilates everyone else's Atom in the world shows that the atoms in their brains were surely prematurely excited. Seems to me like they made the claim without doing any research.

My conclusion is that Real Street Performance may be the cool kids on the block, but Jaydee is the Ultimate Track King.

http://imageshack.us/scaled/landing/824/jaydee1.jpg

Let's bring [MENTION=228]Jaydee[/MENTION] in here to chime in.

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Is that true? Hondata's land speed car has twin rotrex chargers.

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Originally Posted by aLmk

Is that true? Hondata's land speed car has twin rotrex chargers.

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No. There have been a few twin charged cars before I found about jaydee. The guy I bought my first setup from at TTS PERFORMANCE had twin charged his s2k. And hondatas rsx has twin chargers as well.

s4 IG-petefromthestreets
Cage plus radio member #1

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aLmk

So basically with the twin chargers you can get to higher boost levels earlier in the rpm band? Is that what I'm gathering? Rather than a typical super charger that builds boost absolutely linearly through the rpm band? If so, that's really neat and a great use, that to me was always the downfall of the superchargers is that you have to wait till rev limit to get to full boost.

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Thanks for your questions, and interest. It depends on how you do the twin charge layout. If you run parallel Rotrex boost climbs the same as a single Rotrex in a linear fashion.

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Originally Posted by Adm_rsx

No. There have been a few twin charged cars before I found about jaydee. The guy I bought my first setup from at TTS PERFORMANCE had twin charged his s2k. And hondatas rsx has twin chargers as well.

s4 IG-petefromthestreets
Cage plus radio member #1

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You are correct these cars were twin Rotrex, however when I spoke to Doug and Richard they had only ever tried running the Rotrex in parallel.

So to my knowledge almost everyone has twin charged Rotrex or turbo's in parallel to increase the air flow available for more top end boost.

My concept is totally different. The first Rotrex is a big C38-91 which takes atmospheric pressure (14.7psi) and increases this at a pressure ratio dependant on rpm. At 4000rpm the pressure ratio is x1.35 so 14.7psi becomes 19.8psi absolute or 5psi boost (this is the same as a single Rotrex will produce). This 19.8psi absolute then feeds our 2nd series Rotrex which is a smaller C38 unit as it does not need to be as big as both inlet/outlet are at a raised pressure compared to atmosphere. The 2nd unit has a x1.3 pressure ratio but due to the air density drop due to the hot inlet air the outlet pressure is 24.5psi absolute or about 9psi boost.

However we have almost doubled our boost at 4000rpm over a single Rotrex from 5psi to 9psi and the torque increase is 35% more than the single Rotrex from 235Ft/lbs to 315Ft/Lbs. As I said in the previous post acceleration times are 30% quicker now. So yes, you are correct "higher boost levels earlier in the rpm band". If we add another intercooler between the 2 Rotrex's we will pickup 3 to 5 psi more boost, however our fuel system, driveline, tyre grip and other components on the car are pretty much maxed out already and the car is already quick enough. So our efforts are now focused on the Jaydee Quantum 700.

It would be great if Top Gear did a shoot out on our modified Atom's. As they say the BS stops when the flag drops...
They will be in Australia in March 2014 for the http://www.topgearfestivalsydney.com.au/

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Originally Posted by Jaydee

Thanks for your questions, and interest. It depends on how you do the twin charge layout. If you run parallel Rotrex boost climbs the same as a single Rotrex in a linear fashion.


You are correct these cars were twin Rotrex, however when I spoke to Doug and Richard they had only ever tried running the Rotrex in parallel.

So to my knowledge almost everyone has twin charged Rotrex or turbo's in parallel to increase the air flow available for more top end boost.

My concept is totally different. The first Rotrex is a big C38-91 which takes atmospheric pressure (14.7psi) and increases this at a pressure ratio dependant on rpm. At 4000rpm the pressure ratio is x1.35 so 14.7psi becomes 19.8psi absolute or 5psi boost (this is the same as a single Rotrex will produce). This 19.8psi absolute then feeds our 2nd series Rotrex which is a smaller C38 unit as it does not need to be as big as both inlet/outlet are at a raised pressure compared to atmosphere. The 2nd unit has a x1.3 pressure ratio but due to the air density drop due to the hot inlet air the outlet pressure is 24.5psi absolute or about 9psi boost.

However we have almost doubled our boost at 4000rpm over a single Rotrex from 5psi to 9psi and the torque increase is 35% more than the single Rotrex from 235Ft/lbs to 315Ft/Lbs. As I said in the previous post acceleration times are 30% quicker now. So yes, you are correct "higher boost levels earlier in the rpm band". If we add another intercooler between the 2 Rotrex's we will pickup 3 to 5 psi more boost, however our fuel system, driveline, tyre grip and other components on the car are pretty much maxed out already and the car is already quick enough. So our efforts are now focused on the Jaydee Quantum 700.

It would be great if Top Gear did a shoot out on our modified Atom's. As they say the BS stops when the flag drops...
They will be in Australia in March 2014 for the http://www.topgearfestivalsydney.com.au/

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So you get 9 psi at 4000 rpm then manage to get to 20 by 6000 rpm? That's a damn large increase quite quick! I assume you are using a wastegate or diverter valve to bleed boost off up top? And that's how you achieve boost by gear as well?

That would be awesome if top gear covered you, I think they should as they have always loved the atom and did a feature on the original and on the v8.

http://i44.tinypic.com/sdnxb4.png

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Originally Posted by aLmk

So you get 9 psi at 4000 rpm then manage to get to 20 by 6000 rpm? That's a damn large increase quite quick! I assume you are using a wastegate or diverter valve to bleed boost off up top? And that's how you achieve boost by gear as well?

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yes to all your observations. The boost climb is not aggressive in the car. The engine feels like it's NA, just serious power. If you look up the top of this page on my post #11 you will see a datalog which has the boost curve. It's surprisingly smooth.

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Originally Posted by Spoolin_VTEC

http://i44.tinypic.com/sdnxb4.png

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Your effort was so slick I thought it was an ad! :thumb:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Spoolin_VTEC

Browsing this morning, I came across this picture with the caption saying they have the world's fastest Atom:
http://i43.tinypic.com/2v9w176.png

As far as I can tell, they made ~650whp turbocharged, which is nothing compared to Jaydee's Atom. It makes 650whp with the world's first noted twin-rotrex setup. Instant power, full traction, crazy power, very lightweight (~1,365 lbs as noted in their ROTM article found here: April ROTM Winner: Jaydee), extended wheel base, deeply extensive research and development - the works. It's not just about power, or power-to-weight ratios. It's about traction, handling, and everything that makes the Ariel Atom what it is. Saying they're the fastest in the world when the only Atom in Australia humbly annihilates everyone else's Atom in the world shows that the atoms in their brains were surely prematurely excited. Seems to me like they made the claim without doing any research.

My conclusion is that Real Street Performance may be the cool kids on the block, but Jaydee is the Ultimate Track King.

http://imageshack.us/scaled/landing/824/jaydee1.jpg

Let's bring [MENTION=228]Jaydee[/MENTION] in here to chime in.

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Originally Posted by Spoolin_VTEC

http://i44.tinypic.com/sdnxb4.png

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Originally Posted by Jaydee

yes to all your observations. The boost climb is not aggressive in the car. The engine feels like it's NA, just serious power. If you look up the top of this page on my post #11 you will see a datalog which has the boost curve. It's surprisingly smooth.



Your effort was so slick I thought it was an ad! :thumb:

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Hello forum members, we were sent this link so we signed up to enter the discussion.

Spoolin_VTEC, I don't know how you normally resolve conflicts or address things you don't agree with when you're not behind a keyboard, but your posts here have been rather amusing coming from someone I have to assume is old enough to obtain a Driver's License.

Since you are obviously the most upset I'll address you here. If you'll do a bit of due diligence, you would have seen that we finished that car sometime in early to mid 2011 around the time you joined this site. 2.5 years ago I don't believe there was anyone within 100whp (I actually think 200whp) of the car we built. I'm not sure what prompted you to go as far as to make your own image with sweet super-awesome fire font and a cool street intersection you made in Microsoft Paint and call us liars, but regardless, it's very possible that Jaydee's car is faster than the car we built in 2011.

Now if it were me, I would have probably tried to ascertain IF the guys I was calling liars even were liars, considering even now you don't have any information about how fast the car we built is, and therefore cannot even compare it to the information Jaydee has posted. It's also very surprising that a Forum Administrator would post/share something that's quite possibly libelous under their company in a public venue (Facebook.) I guess some people just don't think before they act.

I'll go ahead and say now that I expect that to be taken down from Facebook before the close of business tomorrow (Monday.) We are more than happy to have an open discussion such as this one about the cars, but the way that was portrayed on Facebook was completely unprofessional and suggests that we have "tried to get over on people", which we decidedly have not done. When the McLaren F1 stopped being "the world's fastest production car" it didn't mean that the folks at McLaren instantly were a bunch of liars, haha. And again, we haven't even confirmed if the statement is even wrong yet.

Regarding the car we built, this was not a shop car, it was a customer of ours who has had us build him many different cars, 101mm Turbo'd Mustang Drag Car, 1,030whp Toyota Supra, etc... He has toys and likes to play with them. The car was never campaigned in a race series, the owner just simply likes to go play around with it and drive it whenever he can. We have only seen it a handful of times since it was completed two and a half years ago: once when it broke it's 6 Speed Transmission, and then for some car shows / racing events when he was nice enough to put it next to our booth. We never added any Data Acquisition or reviewed the splits in the ECU logs as Jaydee has since it was just the customer's toy and he didn't care. It's not even the fastest accelerating vehicle we've built for him, so this car wasn't only about straight line acceleration to him.

Now that that is out of the way, and more importantly, Jaydee's car looks absolutely awesome. It is apparent that a ton of care was taken with the build and it looks like a very well built machine. As you can imagine it's extremely exciting for us to be shown another fast one. In fact, being shown Jaydee's car has inspired us to want to contact our customer this week to ask if he'd be interested in doing some upgrades to the car. He has always talked about wanting to make it even faster but it's hard to pry the car out of his hands as you can imagine. Now obviously with it not being our car, we cannot guarantee what he'll have us upgrade but hopefully we can get some acceleration data on the car at the very least to post compared to Jaydee's car.

I look forward to learning more about Jaydee's car and being able to post up some data from the one we built at some point. These are truly awesome cars.

Regards,

Mark Conte
Real Street Performance

very well said there RealStreet. Now that the air is cleared can we all just get a long.