Rotrex powered EM2 BUILD, the final upgrades!

[04carboncivic]

Hey guys, only been a member on this forum since January, made a few posts looking for help earlier this summer after having some problems with my original rotrex build. I have had the car since it came off the production line back in 2004, it's a 2004 civic ex coupe. I did many ricer mods at the beginning, invested in some decent suspension mods in the middle, ad eventually took the plunge and went from a D17A2 automatic (90whp) to a 6spd k20a2.
I had a basic ram air, unknown brand header running Into a 1.75" exhaust with kpro. Car was dyno tuned and reached 205whp, forget the torque (that was 4 years ago).I felt I had conquered the world, well as we all know too well it was time for more power.

Stage 2:
The following summer I started accumulating parts to up the power a bit, the car was a blast on the local circuits but lacked much more excitement than my sisters bone stock 06 PWP type s. So I did what many do looking for "easy power". I upgraded to a cold air intake, 70mm skunk2 throttle body running into a port matched RRC intake manifold, drag cartel drop in cams, 410cc rdx injectors, wavetrac LSD, stage 4 CC clutch and a 3" mandrel bent exhaust. A little bit to my disappointment but still heaps more fun, I was dyno tuned once again to manage 235whp/156 FT lbs. the power increase was enough to make the top end more noticeable, and the cams really livened up the midrange, but the LSD was the hands down best money spent here. The way the car rotates in the corner when gas is applied much earlier in exiting apexes really took away many of the characteristics associated with FWD macpherson strut design suspension. But once again, I said enough with the NA bull, time to get serious

Stage 3:
Now, as much as I enjoy lining up at the tree, there is no comparison to the circuit! Therefore, after going against years of my original plans for a full race sidewinder and schoolboy dreams, I learnt about the infamous ROTREX. I loved the NA powerband, with turbo territory top end power. Here lies my parts accumulation of the winter.
Ktuned fpr and fuel filter, 6 an black braided fuel hose (converted to full return system
Deatschwerk 300lph fuel pump
ID1000 injectors
TTS billet bracket, with EP3 front mount intercooler/radiator combo
Rotrex C38-81 with upgraded larger oil cooler
Tial Q BOV
Tial MVR wastegate 4psi spring
Mac 4 port solenoid for BBG

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/16/ube5e4ej.jpg

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Those are some shitty, far from glorious pictures I had taken when I was removing the setup. the are just to give an idea of the pipe routing etc for now. I had the car running since late July. Was extremely motivated and having fun. Tuning with vit viper. We tuned to redline but were having problems with hitting max psi of 8psi at 4500rpm and boost tapering off after that. I was told to check all my boost lines, leaky couplers, belt slip etc. spent endless hours doing leak downs etx and could not for the life of me figure out what was going on. Right near the end of the summer after unhooking my solenoid to test boost coming off the compressor outlet, magic happened (the dark kind that's dangerous). MY FREAKING WASTEGATE STAYED THE F$@K CLOSED and I peaked 20psi off the compressor outlet. I was so pumped to have felt the tire roasting power of a k series with 20psi being force fed. I started tuning with vit realizing it was the boost solenoid settings allowing the gate to open causing my boost leak. Found out by default that with the boost solenoid not activated, all inlet source pressure goes to the bottom of the diaphragm pushing the valve open. (NOTE: I lost most of my pics following this build on my last iPhone that died, but If you can see in the pics the wastegate is reverse mounted, meaning the pressurized air is blowing the valve shut, so it's not set up like a conventional wastegate for controlling exhaust gasses.)
Regardless, disaster strikes again. I daily drive this car and for the 2 months I was driving it I was working on wind farm fields which consisted of miles of dirt road. I had neglected to change my 4 year old original swap filter which clearly needed to re-oiled or replaced and this happened



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[04carboncivic]

Meaning.....well I'll let the compressor inlet pipe do the talking http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/16/3avahuhy.jpg

(Sad face). Whether or not this is the culprit, my rotrex (which was purchased used), that had been A good unit for the 3000+ km I put on in those months, developed a loud bearing roar fr within the unit. I was so pissed after spending most of the summer customizing the kit to work and finally getting it running, I said what's the worst that could happen if I keep driving, only a couple months left till storage. So I kept driving, the oil level on the oil canister never lost a drop so I thought, meh, if it goes it goes but at least the roller system is being lubricated, and it was still making full boost. So 1 month passes, and I noticed the canister level starting to drop, and the noisy bearings are getting worse. Well quickly I noticed the return line In the canister had started foaming when dumping the oil back in and quickly new I was doomed since I couldn't keep filling it up daily at 100$ a litre. So I drove it until I ran out of fluid to keep topping up with and finally pulled the blower off as seen in the above pictures to put it back to NA for now. Sad to have no truly felt the potential of the unit before having to rip it off, had I discovered the wastegate opening problem earlier I would have likely been fully tuned and potentially lost my license. Maybe it's a blessing in disguise, because even 8psi got me in we trouble. Anywho, I'll post a pic of my bay in all it's rotrex glory before ripping it off this fall to appreciate

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/16/u3abuzu9.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/16/evasaqe4.jpg

And for anyone interested in what the chassis looks like..... What the heck.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/16/e6a5y4yr.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/16/benape2y.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/16/nebe3a2a.jpg




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[04carboncivic]

When I took the blower off and inspected, there is no impeller damage or play on the output shaft side. The play is on the pulley side, it can move up and down enough to not be good, but I know the input shaft isn't broken since it still turns the rollers and the output shaft/compressor. I am going to attempt taking it apart, I suspect the front seals/input shaft bearings are toast, which would explain air getting into the system to cause frothing of the oil. At this time I have spent much of the summer working on this car and neglected other parts of my life like family, my girlfriend, and looking for a new job. So I have decided to take the easy route and have purchased a used c38-91 that is in good working order from a very reputable man many of you may know, jaydee who built the twin rotrex k24 Ariel atom. I still plan on rebuilding this rotrex and testing it. If all goes well I will resell it if I can get what I consider my money's worth. I am also toying selling it now for someone else who has the time and desire to try, but we'll see. I am excited to get the slightly larger charger and get it working properly this coming spring!

I had a few problems at the end of the season right before I put the car away that scared me. The starter solenoid when turned would fire the gear out, but it wouldn't turn, so I was left bump starting the car. Haven't had time to take it apart but I'm not sure if that's a broken starter or wiring issue out of nowhere (never had a problem with my starter). Then worse, my EPS that worked flawlessly all of a suddenly (coincidence it happened right after starter issue, hmmmm?) started very randomly having a mind of its own, which is terrifying. I went to make a left hand turn onto my street infront of traffic and BAM, as if fighting The terminator himself, the wheel decided it was going to fight me and not let it turn, then unlock and turn 1/8-1/16th turn, LOCK AGAIN, and unlock so on and so on. And I know this wasn't just a temp loss of "power assist" since I ran NO powers steering at all for 4 years since my swap, so I know what lack of PS feels like, this was a demonic EPS problem that could deff become fatal if it doesn't stop. Pretty discouraged, I'm hoping its just a simple wiring issue bc I'd hate to diagnose fixing it, I had every problem in the book getting it to work in the first place and ended up diagnosing all the wiring, sensors/signals, new rack, then ended up being the ECM that was bad. Not interested in doing all that again haha. It certainly hasn't been easy staying motivated with so many occurring problems, but I know I'm not nearly the worst on this site for bad luck. Oh and I busted an axle 3 days before taking it off the road......HURRAAYY! Haha maybe a little venting happening right now, but hey what are forums and friends for right?! Keep me motivated guys, I know I can stick it out bc the end result HAS to be worth it right....RIGHT?!?! hopefully I can find my old pics to get more/better pics of the build, those ones posted were to be Memory of how the charge piping goes back together. Hopefully it was somewhat cool to look at for now.

Also debating getting water/meth when I put the -91 on before retuning. I was having major heat soak issues when the filter was under the hood infront of the tranny. On hot days if I ran into Home Depot for 20 min, my intake temps got as high as 130! Normally they would be 98-105 on hot days, 85-90 at night when the car was warmed up. I moved the filter to the fender well behind the bumper, but fear with no fender liners I'm asking for trouble. Was thinking its safer to move the filter back in the back but run meth, any thoughts? Or modify the oem air box to build a shield around the filter in the fender for daily and taking it off with just a velocity stack for track, (filter for circuit). Just blabbin on here now, so I'll post some more randomness of my car in the summer

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And lastly two other k20a2 swapped em2 friends from Canada, there's quite a few of us around the Toronto area. Reppin'!

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/16/yga8uqes.jpg


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[monjarassi]

Welcome.

One of my fav chassis k swapped n boosted.

[04carboncivic]

Thanks man! I don't know why they are the red headed chassis of the Honda family. I was going to rebuild my c38-81 on my own but decided to take up a fellow on a used c38-91 so getting a little bit of an upgrade for this spring!


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[Spoolin_VTEC]

This car looks amazing! I absolutely love the front end! Looks so different yet similar to the USDM version. Interesting front mount, never seen one so tall but narrow! Great idea though. Looking forward to your big boy c38-91 upgrade! What else will be new for the spring?

[04carboncivic]

Thanks man! This car has gone through many aesthetic stages, funny I'm finally happy when it's back to all oem.
I found a buyer for my drag cartel drop in cams, so I'll likely be switching back to k20a2 stock cams and using the money to get a water/meth kit. This will likely bring much more gains than the cams did on a boosted set up. Other then that, my goal this spring is to have the car running strong and reliably. Only thing left is a built k24 block then I'll be done with this car!


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[BoostedK20]

It's funny how the modding process works, isn't it? As for your meth kit, why are you choosing to go that route? Contact any of our eShop staff members, we can likely get you the Meth kit you're looking for at a great price!

[04carboncivic]

Thanks, I didn't know you could purchase through this site.

Jaydee on k20a has done research using an engine simulator and proved no production cams as of yet brought any worthwhile gains to a rotrex setup, so I felt the money I'm getting back would be better invested in another power adder.

I want water/meth since my intake temps during the day in the summer were averaging around 95-99 depending on traffic and ambient temps. If I parked on a hot day in a parking lot and the car sat for 20 min'ish, my intake would heat soak and reach 120-130 and would run like shit when I went to Leave the parking lot until I drove around and got the airflow to bring down the under hood temps. To battle that issue I got rid of my washer bottle and put the intake in the front bumper/fender well. But ultimately I don't want to hack my stock bumper up to expose more of my front mount. So jaydee suggested a water/meth kit to aid in significantly bringing down intake temps reliably. And by reliably I mean a meth kit with a controller that has lean cut safety if the controller senses low fluid or pressure in the lines.

I thought about saving the funds toward building a simple k24 frank but driving around on only 8-9psi last summer on the c38-81 felt torquey enough for me for now, and the -91 should bring on about 1-2 psi more throughout the power band. Not building a k24 now will save me from having to redo the charge piping and exhaust for now, along with mounts etx that would be required as well. I'm getting to a point where I feel there will be more power on tap than I will likely be able to enjoy for now, and I just want it to be reliable more than a dyno queen.


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[BoostedK20]

We don't currently offer meth kits, but helping you would be a great way to introduce them to the eShop! Jaydee gave you some great information, he's quite a gearhead and knows a thing or two about rotrex blowers! ;) As for cooling, let's bring PetefromtheStreets in here for more information. You'll feel a big difference with that c38-91 over the 81 without a doubt.

[PetefromtheStreets]

Woot Woot -92 checking in. Good snag on the -91. As for your heat soak problem it's more then likely your water pump. I highly recommend you look into the water pump I'm currently putting on my setup. It's not rpm dependant do it can fully power the pump to cool your engine while idling. Davies Craig is the manufacturer it's ewp115. Aluminum version.

s4 IG-petefromthestreets
Cage plus radio member #1

[04carboncivic]

Thanks Pete, I'm going to see if the filter relocation takes care of the issue first before I try that, but I'll keep it in mine for sure. I relocated the filter in the fall when temps drop significantly here in Canada so my heat soak issues weren't evident.

I have some sad news! So it turns out there was a mix up and the -91 I was going to buy was sold and now there is a brand new -81 left. I am devastated by this news, but question is what to do now?
I already have an -81 but its in hurting condition. The drive pulley has a little play in it, but it isn't a snapped input shaft since it still makes boost. The oil is cavitating which makes me think the seal and bearings for the input shaft are toast since as described it was making a terrible grinding bearing noise before it came off the road.
I was thinking about getting a new bearing and seal kit to try and rebuild it before I call it a write off even though rotrex says they can't be rebuilt. A bearing kit is only 200ish so to me it's worth a shot even if the rebuild doesn't last terribly long.

On the other hand I was offered if I take this -81 to be given a snow performance cool boost 3 water/meth controller. Essentially I could buy the stage 1 kit for 300ish and have the stage 3. This is tempting me but also not sure if if makes up for not being a 91.

What are your thoughts people? I paid just under $1500 after conversion and Paypal fees for the -91, and now that it isn't one I'm stumped. I only paid $1000 for my last -81 so I feel like its too much to get the same thing I already had. This new -81 is said to only have 2-5 hours of road testing after dyno tuning was complete, which I believe since the seller is an extremely trust worthy guy.
So people's, what do I do? I am selling my drag cartel drop in cams for 750, so that plus this 1500 could put me within price range of a new -91. But that's also a lot of extra coin when the water meth for 300 will likely add 50whp, estimated to be the same power added by upgrading to the -91


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[04carboncivic]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/31/edu8adaq.jpg
More Canadian sadness! Plowed in and frozen solid, sometimes I realize I'm not responsible enough to have a baby..... Lol. Luckily the temps went up to +8 Celsius a few days this week and I shovelled it out and put it in the garage.

And on the more fun side for winter to help me get through the depression of storing my baby, I have this little Manual Quattro mistress. These are 19x9 with 235/35/19 winter tires. Because you gotta look boss in every season! I never looked forward to huge snow storms until I bought this.....
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/31/dunageda.jpg


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[04carboncivic]

Two more for fun, because everybody loves pictures.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/01/5ydateju.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/01/asa3ezy7.jpg

Audi after playing in a parking lot in 10 inches of powder = one cocaine dusted bitty (brutal photo but it was snowing really hard and I suck at pictures haha)


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[PetefromtheStreets]

The fact you got a blower for 1k amazes me. I Paid $2700 for mine and I got a discount on that even.

The -81 still makes great power. If they are that cheap I'd just buy another blower and then worry about fixing the other one and perhaps sell after its been rebuilt. I don't recommend rebuild yourself. I tore my old 81 apart and it was not pretty. There's things that need done that I didn't know about till after it was too late. Thankfully it was a trashed blower anyways.

s4 IG-petefromthestreets
Cage plus radio member #1

[aLmk]

Wow this is a great build, sad I didn't see it till now.

[04carboncivic]

Thanks!
Pete I agree 1500 isn't a bad deal on a new blower, just sucks its not the -91 I was hoping to upgrade to, knowing it was the most power I could make.

As far as the rebuild, look up MrJackHeath on Flickr, he has albums on albums of his rotrex rebuilds and modifications changing compressor wheels to flow a lot more air than they do from the box. He shows each step for disassembly and tips on reassembly. He was the one who convinced me to try since otherwise it's become $1000 paper weight. It hurts knowing it still works, just a matter of time until it implodes if I don't try rebuilding it lol.

I know the -81 was flowing 20psi out of the compressor outlet when I metered it, so assuming 2psi lose to the manifold means I sure should still be happy with 18psi on a stock k20a2 block. Assuming wit meth injection I should have no problem hitting 450whp with my 88mm blower pulley, a2 crank pulley, and 8000 rpm redline.


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[BoostedK20]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/31/edu8adaq.jpg
More Canadian sadness! Plowed in and frozen solid, sometimes I realize I'm not responsible enough to have a baby..... Lol. Luckily the temps went up to +8 Celsius a few days this week and I shovelled it out and put it in the garage.

And on the more fun side for winter to help me get through the depression of storing my baby, I have this little Manual Quattro mistress. These are 19x9 with 235/35/19 winter tires. Because you gotta look boss in every season! I never looked forward to huge snow storms until I bought this.....
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/31/dunageda.jpg


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B6 S4 is one V8 that I love. A good friend of mine is an Audi Whore (on his 9th Audi in 4 years) and of all of them, the b6 was my favorite. A good friend of mine owns Elite Motorsports and has a B5 S4 TT and an 04 Gallardo. Audi has always made beautiful setups!

Two more for fun, because everybody loves pictures.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/01/5ydateju.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/01/asa3ezy7.jpg

Audi after playing in a parking lot in 10 inches of powder = one cocaine dusted bitty (brutal photo but it was snowing really hard and I suck at pictures haha)


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Glad to see you had fun, I like your taste!

The fact you got a blower for 1k amazes me. I Paid $2700 for mine and I got a discount on that even.

The -81 still makes great power. If they are that cheap I'd just buy another blower and then worry about fixing the other one and perhaps sell after its been rebuilt. I don't recommend rebuild yourself. I tore my old 81 apart and it was not pretty. There's things that need done that I didn't know about till after it was too late. Thankfully it was a trashed blower anyways.

s4 IG-petefromthestreets
Cage plus radio member #1
Someone's mad! Seriously, it's a great price.

Wow this is a great build, sad I didn't see it till now.
Great build right? Gotta love the rotrex builds.

Thanks!
Pete I agree 1500 isn't a bad deal on a new blower, just sucks its not the -91 I was hoping to upgrade to, knowing it was the most power I could make.

As far as the rebuild, look up MrJackHeath on Flickr, he has albums on albums of his rotrex rebuilds and modifications changing compressor wheels to flow a lot more air than they do from the box. He shows each step for disassembly and tips on reassembly. He was the one who convinced me to try since otherwise it's become $1000 paper weight. It hurts knowing it still works, just a matter of time until it implodes if I don't try rebuilding it lol.

I know the -81 was flowing 20psi out of the compressor outlet when I metered it, so assuming 2psi lose to the manifold means I sure should still be happy with 18psi on a stock k20a2 block. Assuming wit meth injection I should have no problem hitting 450whp with my 88mm blower pulley, a2 crank pulley, and 8000 rpm redline.


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Sounds fun! 18psi is a good amount on a stock block. Are you running headstuds? vdubkilla has a great method for headstud swapping! And PetefromtheStreets should definitely look up MrJackHeath on Flickr. It would interest him!

[vdubkilla]

I installed ARP head studs in my other stock engine one at a time .Just pull one oem bolt , Install one ARP stud torque to spec and repeat til all are replaced .It was suggested to me by a friend of mine who had used the method before and I must say it worked well that engine saw 30 psi many many times and never had any head lifting issues .

[04carboncivic]

Interesting, thanks for the info I'll definitely try that!


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[Si Speed 317]

I installed ARP head studs in my other stock engine one at a time .Just pull one oem bolt , Install one ARP stud and repeat til all are replaced .It was suggested to me by a friend of mine who had used the method before and I must say it worked well that engine saw 30 psi many many times and never had any head lifting issues .

That's one reason why this man is so valuable. Another one is because he has a quad that's faster than his hatch ;) And another one is because he wheelies past the kids at the bus stop before they go to school, and scares the shit out of them by doing burnouts on the lawn, throwing all the grass, dirt, and maggots at them! vdubkilla for president.

[vdubkilla]

I forgot to put make sure you torque each head stud to spec prior to pulling the next bolt . As far as the quad I don't burnout in front of the kids but the town drunk sure hates the quad LOL :thefinger: is pretty much my feelings toward him .

[04carboncivic]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/06/y3yvava2.jpg

Round 2 of rotrex vs em2.

Was supposed to have gotten a c38-91, due to a mishap the seller ended up with a c38-81. I ended up getting a stage 3 snow performance meth injection system which I always wanted out of the deal. Got a fairly good deal out of this, everything in the kit is brand new except the blower itself (new canister, oil cooler, bottle of oil, even AN fittings to run AN lines if I choose instead of rubber. Guy went as far as to include every manual and pamphlet that came with each item). All this for a fraction of the price of a new one.

Hopefully after June 14 I can get cracking on this and be up and running relatively quick.

Only down side is I have seen to have an electrical problem. My battery keeps draining when the car sits too long (few days) and I had a wonky drive where my EPS was cutting in and out/my dash started turning on and off. I want to get that sorted before I worry about installing this and tuning. You guys have any idea what would cause my symptoms? I have a kill switch in the trunk with battery back there. I have 1/0 gauge running to the starter, and a distribution block to the eps off that same wire. The alternator also ties to that distribution block. The other side of the kill switch runs to my fuse box only, so when the switch is hit it cuts all power to the fuse box, killing the car. My only concern is I ran 8 gauge wire I think from the back of the car to under the hood as I believe that would be fine for a fuse box, but now I'm wondering if it isn't enough?

2nd thought is I took my alternator off last year and freshened it up with paint, in doing so I bent one fin on it with a screw driver. Since then I noticed the most I ever get from it in kpro is around 13.2-13.4 volts, so I was wondering if that could be causing my problems? Since the car drains I believe I have a bad ground or short somewhere causing this, but I don't know what would cause my EPS and dash to go crazy, was scary with the EPS turning off and on randomly, especially turning at a light, could have easily caused and accident.

Thanks for any help, will update after June 14th for install.


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[monjarassi]

Hey what radiator are u using

[aLmk]

You may have a loose connection somewhere as well.

[BoostedK20]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/06/y3yvava2.jpg

Round 2 of rotrex vs em2.

Was supposed to have gotten a c38-91, due to a mishap the seller ended up with a c38-81. I ended up getting a stage 3 snow performance meth injection system which I always wanted out of the deal. Got a fairly good deal out of this, everything in the kit is brand new except the blower itself (new canister, oil cooler, bottle of oil, even AN fittings to run AN lines if I choose instead of rubber. Guy went as far as to include every manual and pamphlet that came with each item). All this for a fraction of the price of a new one.

Hopefully after June 14 I can get cracking on this and be up and running relatively quick.

Only down side is I have seen to have an electrical problem. My battery keeps draining when the car sits too long (few days) and I had a wonky drive where my EPS was cutting in and out/my dash started turning on and off. I want to get that sorted before I worry about installing this and tuning. You guys have any idea what would cause my symptoms? I have a kill switch in the trunk with battery back there. I have 1/0 gauge running to the starter, and a distribution block to the eps off that same wire. The alternator also ties to that distribution block. The other side of the kill switch runs to my fuse box only, so when the switch is hit it cuts all power to the fuse box, killing the car. My only concern is I ran 8 gauge wire I think from the back of the car to under the hood as I believe that would be fine for a fuse box, but now I'm wondering if it isn't enough?

2nd thought is I took my alternator off last year and freshened it up with paint, in doing so I bent one fin on it with a screw driver. Since then I noticed the most I ever get from it in kpro is around 13.2-13.4 volts, so I was wondering if that could be causing my problems? Since the car drains I believe I have a bad ground or short somewhere causing this, but I don't know what would cause my EPS and dash to go crazy, was scary with the EPS turning off and on randomly, especially turning at a light, could have easily caused and accident.

Thanks for any help, will update after June 14th for install.


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Looking forward to it! 3 days!!