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Jonezy
06-21-2015, 03:52 PM
Hey fellas. After some opinions if you wouldn't mind.

Currently have a k20a2 ep3 type R with pt5558 and sidewinder on an oem unopened block. Totally stock.

Currently most I run is 1bar of boost on very rare occasions. Usually run 420fwbhp max.

For piece of mind I'm thinking about forging a spare block.

What is needed, what is worth just doing whilst your in there working on the block, and what isn't needed?

Currently on parts I have ready to go are 86mm 9:1 wiseco Pistons and eagle rods. Is upping to 10:1 compression worth it?

Plan was to use oem bearings, super tech valve springs and retainers, oem valves, replace valve guides and seals, oem sleeves.

Hoping for an extremely reliable setup, around 500-550fly hp and let the engine make whatever torque it wants to.

I know you guys in the U.S. Run that sort of setup on stock blocks.

Any thoughts on the plans? Criticism welcome.

Thanks

BoostedK20
06-23-2015, 04:12 PM
PetefromtheStreets monjarassi Frostydc5 are a few great people to chime in on these spare motor build questions!

Jonezy
06-23-2015, 06:32 PM
Thanks man.

Tuners seem to want to sell you everything is all. Will be home built too, any tips on this? Links on how to etc? Have an engineering background so most things will be done anyway. Info on Things like checking clearances for bearings, ring clearances, piston to bore clearance etc would be cool

monjarassi
06-23-2015, 07:43 PM
Look here brah hope u take my personal advice and keep it simple and itll last and be worth it.

Stock sleeve,
86.5mm pistons and rod combo,
oem bearings,
ARP headstuds
upgrade valvesprings only and valve seals.

Easy with the right fuel setup you'll reach that goal.


http://realstreetperformance.com/Shop-by-Engine/Build-Your-Block_8/

PetefromtheStreets
06-23-2015, 09:59 PM
9:1 compression is am excellent ratio. Going 10:1 will work also. But the more compression you add the better the fuel you'll need.

As monjarassi said stock bore or +.5mm is good as to keep the sleeves thick. Also helps keep heat down. Springs and retainers are a good idea.

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Jonezy
06-24-2015, 12:55 PM
Thanks for that fellas, in the UK fuel isn't really an issue as 97-99ron (different system to stateside) so 10:1 should be fine

Any reason not to stay 86mm? Only as as the Pistons I already have are 86mm so seems daft boring the block to fit different Pistons unless 86.5 has a big advantage?

That all sounds simple enough what you have said and it we actually sort of what I wanted to hear lol.

PetefromtheStreets
06-24-2015, 01:07 PM
Thanks for that fellas, in the UK fuel isn't really an issue as 97-99ron (different system to stateside) so 10:1 should be fine

Any reason not to stay 86mm? Only as as the Pistons I already have are 86mm so seems daft boring the block to fit different Pistons unless 86.5 has a big advantage?

That all sounds simple enough what you have said and it we actually sort of what I wanted to hear lol.
Staying 86mm is fine as well.

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Jonezy
06-24-2015, 01:16 PM
Sweet. Thought there might have been a specific reason, though choice of Pistons seems to be better at 86.5mm

Jonezy
06-24-2015, 01:19 PM
Does lower compression make the turbo any laggier or anything?

PetefromtheStreets
06-24-2015, 01:21 PM
Sweet. Thought there might have been a specific reason, though choice of Pistons seems to be better at 86.5mm
That's because when you pull the motor apart you usually bore and hone it to give a nice fresh surface and 86.5mm is your next step.

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Jonezy
06-24-2015, 02:02 PM
Sweet, cheers fellas.

Makes a bit more sense now.

Genuine or super tech valve seals anyone?

PetefromtheStreets
06-24-2015, 02:05 PM
Sweet, cheers fellas.

Makes a bit more sense now.

Genuine or super tech valve seals anyone?
Either will work. I run supertech seals

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Jonezy
06-24-2015, 03:30 PM
Nice one Pete. Neither is better than the other then? Both fit with any valves? Sorry if I'm bombarding with questions.

PetefromtheStreets
06-24-2015, 03:47 PM
Nice one Pete. Neither is better than the other then? Both fit with any valves? Sorry if I'm bombarding with questions.
Honestly I have no clue on that one.

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Jonezy
06-25-2015, 06:27 PM
No worries pal. Thanks for your input

Honda oem gear seem to be so good, making choice between OEM and aftermarket is quite difficult and you literally need Guinea pigs, or people with experience

Jonezy
07-26-2015, 08:46 AM
Hey fellas.

Been through real streets site. Got questions about valve train.

Ones I like the look of are the super tech 92lb with retainers. My question is, are bases required or will the oem ones do the job and do they come with the bases in the "kit"

Cheers

Jonezy
11-01-2015, 09:13 AM
Hey fellas.

Dredge this up again.

What lb springs are needed? And do you need titanium retainers?
Got 92lb super techs with titanium retainers in the basket so far.

PetefromtheStreets
11-01-2015, 11:45 AM
Hey fellas.

Dredge this up again.

What lb springs are needed? And do you need titanium retainers?
Got 92lb super techs with titanium retainers in the basket so far.

What's up man. Sorry I never saw your last post.

What cams are you going with? The reason you go with higher spring rates for valvetrain is because of the ramp on the cam you'll be using. If you're going with a big high lift, fast ramp cam you'll need the higher spring rate. I don't know if 92 is the higher rate or not. But this is also effected by the rpm you desire. If going beyond 9k I'd go with the higher rate spring as well.

And titanium retainers are needed when you buy valvetrain and you'll need spring bases as well but I'd check with your kit. They should be called "seats".

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Jonezy
11-01-2015, 02:02 PM
Standard cams and rev limit probably of no more than 8.6k as I am likely to just use a new oem k20a2 oil pump

Thanks for clearing some of that up. Anything to look for with bases? Materials wise?
And valves, are they worth replacing/ upgrading?

PetefromtheStreets
11-02-2015, 12:13 AM
Standard cams and rev limit probably of no more than 8.6k as I am likely to just use a new oem k20a2 oil pump

Thanks for clearing some of that up. Anything to look for with bases? Materials wise?
And valves, are they worth replacing/ upgrading?

Yea I'd say the standard set of spring rates would suffice. And I'm unsure of the bases material but I'd be more than willing to bet that whatever the standard is, is fine. I'm running the supertech kit and they are still good to go 3 years later.

As for valves that's a topic I know little about.
I've got custom Manley race valves in my new engine per the builders request. +1mm all around I believe. Oem with just spring and retainers are fine also. I have a few friends running the combo making good power and no issues to date.


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Jonezy
11-02-2015, 06:58 PM
Thanks for that mate.

Strange when the shopping list gets smaller and smaller haha

Jonezy
11-03-2015, 01:11 PM
Checked he super tech kit I was looking at. It does come with bases so happy with that.
Anything in the lost motion assembly need replacing?

BoostedK20
11-16-2015, 03:34 PM
Checked he super tech kit I was looking at. It does come with bases so happy with that.
Anything in the lost motion assembly need replacing?

@petestreets monjarassi Spaz

Spoolin_VTEC
11-16-2015, 10:17 PM
What's a lost motion assembly?

PetefromtheStreets
11-16-2015, 11:07 PM
Checked he super tech kit I was looking at. It does come with bases so happy with that.
Anything in the lost motion assembly need replacing?

I never replaced any of them in my head. I figure if the caps look well worn I'd replace them I've never really heard of any issues from them.


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monjarassi
11-16-2015, 11:10 PM
Checked he super tech kit I was looking at. It does come with bases so happy with that.
Anything in the lost motion assembly need replacing?

no just check the hats are intact and not worn

Jonezy
11-17-2015, 06:15 AM
Cheers for the replies

Only ask as someone recently had an epic failure of the LMA and took much of the new valvetrain down with it

PetefromtheStreets
11-17-2015, 09:52 AM
Cheers for the replies

Only ask as someone recently had an epic failure of the LMA and took much of the new valvetrain down with it

Where did you see that? I'm curious to see what happened.


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Jonezy
11-17-2015, 04:55 PM
Was a lad on the Uk type r owners FB page. Fitted all new valvetrain, went for mapping, LMA let go on dyno I believe?

Again, I've never heard of it before. Guess it's rare if you never heard of it before

Si Speed 317
11-18-2015, 11:15 PM
Interesting! Gonna look into this more.

Spoolin_VTEC
11-23-2015, 10:14 PM
Anyone want to explain the LMA mishap to me? I feel.. left out.

Jonezy
11-24-2015, 11:57 AM
Wouldn't worry about it, not seen any mention of it since. Will add screenshots if I do find it.

Jonezy
11-24-2015, 04:13 PM
Another thing I need help with.......

What's decent brands of Pistons?

Plan to go with either CP, Arias or wiseco in no particular order. It's depend and more on who does the closest comp ratio to 10:1

PetefromtheStreets
11-24-2015, 04:15 PM
Another thing I need help with.......

What's decent brands of Pistons?

Plan to go with either CP, Arias or wiseco in no particular order. It's depend and more on who does the closest comp ratio to 10:1

I have wiseco just what the builder preferred


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Jonezy
11-24-2015, 05:06 PM
Sweet, thanks for the input,

Building myself so it's whatever is most transparent when it comes to piston to bore clearance, ring gaps, etc

Also, found the guy who had LMA fail...... They tend to fail, when you don't re-insert them. VTC lobe on cam smashed itself to pieces. Certainly won't be doing that!

BoostedK20
11-26-2015, 12:07 PM
Another thing I need help with.......

What's decent brands of Pistons?

Plan to go with either CP, Arias or wiseco in no particular order. It's depend and more on who does the closest comp ratio to 10:1
monjarassi Spaz bodyman and E-Tunez do you have anything specifically you prefer, and why?

Jonezy
11-26-2015, 04:27 PM
Thanks for the tags matey.

Si Speed 317
11-27-2015, 02:07 PM
Another thing I need help with.......

What's decent brands of Pistons?

Plan to go with either CP, Arias or wiseco in no particular order. It's depend and more on who does the closest comp ratio to 10:1

I have never heard of Arias, but I know Wiseco and CP. Whichever you choose, I believe in matching the rods to the pistons. I think either company will make you happy.

Jonezy
11-27-2015, 04:16 PM
I have eagle rods already to go, they decent? Reluctant to swap em unless they are dogshit.

When you say matching you mean weigh everything and make as close to equal sets as you can yes?

PetefromtheStreets
11-27-2015, 04:19 PM
I have eagle rods already to go, they decent? Reluctant to swap em unless they are dogshit.

When you say matching you mean weigh everything and make as close to equal sets as you can yes?

Matching weight yes. And eagles are fine. I used to hate them only because they were cheap. But I've never owned a set. A friend of mine Boyle morphine made 807whp on them and then he sold the car. The next owner made 858whp same motor and same old eagle rods.


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Jonezy
11-27-2015, 04:35 PM
Sweet, bit of confidence there then.

PetefromtheStreets
11-27-2015, 04:35 PM
Sweet, bit of confidence there then.

Yessir


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Jonezy
11-27-2015, 05:58 PM
Awesome! Will be purchasing wiseco Pistons and loads of other goodies whilst I'm in the states in January for a month :)

Anybody on here live in Vegas?

Jonezy
11-27-2015, 06:10 PM
Also, what of the OEM stuff should I change?

Chain, tensioner and guides, water pump and oil pump for definite

What about oil pump tensioner, pump chain guide? Any gaskets worth changing whilst I'm in there? Trying to be thorough but don't wanna be wasteful on stuff that don't need it

PetefromtheStreets
11-27-2015, 06:13 PM
Also, what of the OEM stuff should I change?

Chain, tensioner and guides, water pump and oil pump for definite

What about oil pump tensioner, pump chain guide? Any gaskets worth changing whilst I'm in there? Trying to be thorough but don't wanna be wasteful on stuff that don't need it

I changed the upper timing chain guide. To the z3 one. It covers more of the cam gears. I also added the lower chain guard. The one that wraps around the crank to prevent the chain from falling. Most gaskets on the motor are Honda bond. But I'd put a new main and rear main seal in.


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Jonezy
11-27-2015, 07:36 PM
When you say main and rear main? Which seals are they? The crank seals right?

Jonezy
11-27-2015, 07:40 PM
http://japserviceparts.co.uk/products/civic/honda-civic-ep3-type-r-01-on/honda-crankshaft-oil-seal-rear-k20a-ep3-dc5.html?___SID=U

http://japserviceparts.co.uk/products/civic/honda-civic-ep3-type-r-01-on/front-crankshaft-oil-seal-timing-chain-cover-seal-civic-type-r-ep3-fn2-integra-dc5.html?___SID=U

Those right? Will be using that site for all the oem spares. Will order tomorrow as Black Friday weekend discounts are pretty attractive!

Thanks all for input, lifesavers you lot! The usually suspects over here that aren't tuners are pretty clueless!

boosted_teg
11-29-2015, 04:04 AM
i ran wiseco 87mm pistons in my k20 for years on stock sleeves. Almsot 600whp and 400 trq. I went with CP pistons, but my choice wouldve been arias pistons. What a lot of top notch racers are running.

Jonezy
11-29-2015, 07:41 AM
Sweet. So I'm not gonna go wrong with any of the 3. Cheers again fellas.

Any input on what oem bits to swap out yet? Or is it just down to inspection?

Jonezy
11-30-2015, 04:31 PM
i ran wiseco 87mm pistons in my k20 for years on stock sleeves. Almsot 600whp and 400 trq. I went with CP pistons, but my choice wouldve been arias pistons. What a lot of top notch racers are running.

Are any particular Pistons out of the 3 better for daily driver? Piston slap etc?